At a point in the video a word was being searched for wrt what antidebate is doing
C O N S T E L L A T I N G
was the word on my mind. Those existent modalities that use that word might be of benefit (family Constellations)... just as antidebate would be to them
This is great. So good to see you Jonathan in flow mode. I feel sometimes that some people myself included get rather discombobulated with the philosophy jargon, which, not being one’s area of expertise can be difficult. That said, it encourages me to investigate and learn.
However the thrust of your argument is still clearly conveyed and arresting.
The video is a compelling exposition of the metacrisis and succinctly describes all my thoughts fears worries and hopes.
As a process person and facilitator of deliberative democracy I'm appreciating the Antidebate video and these posts. I'm interested in these experiments and particularly what relevance they might have for democracy and addressing the metacrisis.
From the video I get a sense of the process but as with anything the proof of the pudding is in the eating, so I would love to experience it at some point. In the meantime here are a few thoughts and questions:
I can see potential for overlap and cross fertilisation here with processes such as Arnold Mindell's Deep Democracy, Social Presencing Theater - 4D Mapping, Warm Data Labs and to some extent Dynamic Facilitation and Convergent Facilitation
Also in your previous article you mentioned it works best with people who know each other and in the Swarming stage where people make a commitment it sounds like participants come out of the process with an individual pledge. I'm wondering whether there's a role for the Antidebate embedded within the proceedings of long form processes like Citizens Assemblies where participants are randomly selected, from a wide range of backgrounds and where the outcomes are less individual and more in the realm of collective choice making.
Or is the intention for the Antidebate to remain an evolution of the practice of debate informing individuals in due course as agents of democracy and participants in civic life?
To what extent could we watch an Antidebate (e.g instead of watching Question Time on TV) and have a vicarious experience of the process?
I suspect the wider context matters. So like if you have an anti-debate at your Festival it'll be different to an evening anti-debate in London.
We didn't get to do it much but I think our 'Synods' really benefited from the fact we'd all be immersed in Ritual an hour or so after debate. If/when we get to do our next event I'd be really interested in this sort of format for the Synod section. I especially love the movement. I imagine that really adds to the experience.
Perhaps I missed something. The process and the inquiry seemed to remain on the horizontal level. (Rational/cognitive))Was there a door structured into the experience to the Unknown the Mystery? The evolutionary beyond? What is so absent in Western cultures are communal body based rituals around the vertical, communal rituals involving sacrifice of the lesser for the greater meaning, soundings (chants, song, pure sounding), body movement to pulsation (rhythmic) (the irrational/intuitive) .see Anna Halprin’s work with designing and enacting Community Ritual in the Bay Area. She taught the Life-Art Process which she created as a process to heal herself from cancer(successfully) - involving and integrated process of drawing, movement, and Awareness of three levels of consciousness. “Anna radicalized dance and innovated new concepts of dance, healing and interdisciplinary arts that have influenced people in many fields,” Daria told The Chronicle. “She bridged the concepts of performing arts and healing arts in ways that touched people all over the world.” Google
Not too long ago I posted a piece on some philosophical aspects and background of what I very recently have learned is properly called the metacrisis (which, not knowing this term then, I simply called a crisis): https://tmfow.substack.com/p/philosophy-for-our-future
Curious to hear your thoughts on this. I have more essays planned that interconnect with it
Of course its a 'nice' idea shared by well-intentioned and 'very-nice' people, but is it experientially naive in the context of the wise aphorism, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions?" Here is a question-bomb for people who speak about bringing our 'whole-self' to gatherings like the upcoming Realization Festival in June:
"How do you walk and talk and what do you understand about the instinctively automatic nature of your perceptions of reality?"
Having asked Johnathan if he knows how to make an 'inner' move that will 'checkmate' his sense-of-rationality, I have decided to put my money where my mouth is, so to speak, and purchased my ticket to the festival .
Disappointed that the event is on the weekend following the event of a full-moon, but no matter, we can still experience the 'end-of-days' prophecy each afternoon and talk about how to 'feel' the embodied reality of being-in-time, and notice how we keep talking ourselves out-of-it.
Appreciated.
At a point in the video a word was being searched for wrt what antidebate is doing
C O N S T E L L A T I N G
was the word on my mind. Those existent modalities that use that word might be of benefit (family Constellations)... just as antidebate would be to them
This is great. So good to see you Jonathan in flow mode. I feel sometimes that some people myself included get rather discombobulated with the philosophy jargon, which, not being one’s area of expertise can be difficult. That said, it encourages me to investigate and learn.
However the thrust of your argument is still clearly conveyed and arresting.
The video is a compelling exposition of the metacrisis and succinctly describes all my thoughts fears worries and hopes.
As a process person and facilitator of deliberative democracy I'm appreciating the Antidebate video and these posts. I'm interested in these experiments and particularly what relevance they might have for democracy and addressing the metacrisis.
From the video I get a sense of the process but as with anything the proof of the pudding is in the eating, so I would love to experience it at some point. In the meantime here are a few thoughts and questions:
I can see potential for overlap and cross fertilisation here with processes such as Arnold Mindell's Deep Democracy, Social Presencing Theater - 4D Mapping, Warm Data Labs and to some extent Dynamic Facilitation and Convergent Facilitation
Also in your previous article you mentioned it works best with people who know each other and in the Swarming stage where people make a commitment it sounds like participants come out of the process with an individual pledge. I'm wondering whether there's a role for the Antidebate embedded within the proceedings of long form processes like Citizens Assemblies where participants are randomly selected, from a wide range of backgrounds and where the outcomes are less individual and more in the realm of collective choice making.
Or is the intention for the Antidebate to remain an evolution of the practice of debate informing individuals in due course as agents of democracy and participants in civic life?
To what extent could we watch an Antidebate (e.g instead of watching Question Time on TV) and have a vicarious experience of the process?
Thanks.
I suspect the wider context matters. So like if you have an anti-debate at your Festival it'll be different to an evening anti-debate in London.
We didn't get to do it much but I think our 'Synods' really benefited from the fact we'd all be immersed in Ritual an hour or so after debate. If/when we get to do our next event I'd be really interested in this sort of format for the Synod section. I especially love the movement. I imagine that really adds to the experience.
Perhaps I missed something. The process and the inquiry seemed to remain on the horizontal level. (Rational/cognitive))Was there a door structured into the experience to the Unknown the Mystery? The evolutionary beyond? What is so absent in Western cultures are communal body based rituals around the vertical, communal rituals involving sacrifice of the lesser for the greater meaning, soundings (chants, song, pure sounding), body movement to pulsation (rhythmic) (the irrational/intuitive) .see Anna Halprin’s work with designing and enacting Community Ritual in the Bay Area. She taught the Life-Art Process which she created as a process to heal herself from cancer(successfully) - involving and integrated process of drawing, movement, and Awareness of three levels of consciousness. “Anna radicalized dance and innovated new concepts of dance, healing and interdisciplinary arts that have influenced people in many fields,” Daria told The Chronicle. “She bridged the concepts of performing arts and healing arts in ways that touched people all over the world.” Google
Not too long ago I posted a piece on some philosophical aspects and background of what I very recently have learned is properly called the metacrisis (which, not knowing this term then, I simply called a crisis): https://tmfow.substack.com/p/philosophy-for-our-future
Curious to hear your thoughts on this. I have more essays planned that interconnect with it
Of course its a 'nice' idea shared by well-intentioned and 'very-nice' people, but is it experientially naive in the context of the wise aphorism, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions?" Here is a question-bomb for people who speak about bringing our 'whole-self' to gatherings like the upcoming Realization Festival in June:
"How do you walk and talk and what do you understand about the instinctively automatic nature of your perceptions of reality?"
Having asked Johnathan if he knows how to make an 'inner' move that will 'checkmate' his sense-of-rationality, I have decided to put my money where my mouth is, so to speak, and purchased my ticket to the festival .
Disappointed that the event is on the weekend following the event of a full-moon, but no matter, we can still experience the 'end-of-days' prophecy each afternoon and talk about how to 'feel' the embodied reality of being-in-time, and notice how we keep talking ourselves out-of-it.